Check out this NYT discussion on homeschooling. Children are asked, "Would you want to be homeschooled?" Answers are in the comments.
Those of us who argue that our kids learn more at home, in spite of their untrained, non-unionized teachers and limited budgets, can take the rest of the day off. The public school kids' comments have rendered argument on that score unnecessary. A sampling from the young scholars:
In my opinion, i would never turn to home schooling. When you are home schooled, you automaticly loose the whole social experience of school. In the real world you need to be social. Otherwise you’re going to get know where. I understand that the learning education might be to an advantage while homeschooling because its all one on one and you are the only student reciveing all the help you need whenever you need it. I would never home school my child because I would be holding them back from friends and the social life they will need in the feature. I would never even consider home schooling.Sugar-coding the kids -- is that an experiment in one of those crazy homeschool chemistry books? We haven't tried that one but it sounds like fun.
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I don’t think homeschooling can prepare children for a real world because when your home schooled, you’re away from the real world and you probably wouldn’t know how to communicate with other people. School is where you learn how to work with others and communicate but if you don’t have no one else but your parents with this type of education, it would be hard when they release you into the real world. But if you’re home schooled, you wouldn’t have to be pressured with drugs. I also disagree with the writers mother when she says that working at one’s own pace and following one’s genuine interests is the best way to learn.
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I would never want to be home schooled because you are not able to socalize with your friends at school. If you dont meet or talk to anyone, people might start to make fun of you because you have no friends that hang out with you. You might be smarter if you are home schooled but you still will not know how to make good friends if you get accepted into a college where you are met with other kids. If your are home schooled and you go to college you will fell as if the class is going too slow or if you know something before other kids then you will be frusterated that you are learning the same thing and nothing new. Overall I think that home schooling is not something that you should consider because you are not social with other kids, and later on in college you will not learn as much as you should be learning.
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No I would not like to be home schooled because then I wouldn’t have a chance to meet any of my friends that I know now and I wouldn’t be going to the awsome school that i’m at now. I also think I wouldn’t be able to stand my mom for the six hours.
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I would not want to be homeschooled because I would like to be friends with people. I would also want to play sports in highschool. It is better to get out of the house then to be locked in.
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no, because is boring
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I think I wouldn’t want to be home schooled because then I wouldn’t have any friends and I wouldn’t have a life and just stay home all the time. I also need to get into a good college to have a career and I think if I’m home schooled than I wouldn’t be able to do that at all because now for college even if you have a high average and you wouldn’t be able to get into a good college because you need to be involved in school such as clubs and after school activities. Although if I was home- schooled it would probably be because I am an actress or movie star.
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When you think about it, home schooling only encorages children to stay at home, instead of preparing them to leave. It gets them used to the comfortable living arangements at home more than usual. Other then that, if they do go outside, they have no personal confrontations with other children, so they will not easily develope speaking to other people, which means no friends, no girl/boyfriend, no husbands or wives, their lives would be pretty much empty.
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I think homeschooling is dumb. I think homeschooling doesn’t prepare kids for the real world. they don’t learn how to socialize with other people. Some parents may sugar code the kids. So they might not know everything there suppose to know. no i do not agree.
The themes:
School is where our friends are (bullies included) and its institutional character prepares us for the grim "real world."
Home is an isolating, lonely place.
Friends are vastly more important than family.
"Socialization" is a necessity and can only take place in school.
"Socialization" is more important than learning.
Conformity is more important than learning.
Learning shouldn't be too pleasant an experience.
Herding us into groups is what we deserve.
Outside the institution of government school, personal advancement is not possible.
Here we have young people who can barely imagine what life would be like without school, or how they could possibly learn or make friends apart from this government institution. Their obsession with "socialization" attests to the breadth and depth of the peer-attachment epidemic.
I'm not sure what the poor things mean by "the real world," but I get the feeling they think it's going to be even bleaker than the current conveyor belt they're riding. Passivity and conformity have been bred into them from day one and all they can do is praise the system that is crushing them. It's not their fault; they never had a chance.
Page two features comments from homeschooling kids and parents trying to explain what it's all about. But it's like trying to describe daylight to the blind. In addition to the obvious leap in literacy, and at least as important as that, is the vitality evident in the homeschoolers' testimonials. They aren't blindered drones repeating what they've been fed since kindergarten.
One homeschool student:
I homeschool and I am *IN* the real world daily. I am not cloistered and learning from a pre-approved, test-ready curriculum created for a myriad of students. I learn from the real-world and its many examples across the subjects.From a homeschooling parent:
Today I spent my afternoon in an art museum learning not only about the art around me, but about the collectors of the art and why they choose to spend their money collecting art.
On Monday, I, with a group of homeschooled friends, dissected a deer brain, heart, and trachea harvested by a hunter friend.
Tomorrow I am playing golf with a public-schooled friend because he has the day off for Veteran’s Day. But we won’t go until after my dad and I put up our own tree stand and prepare for hunting Saturday morning.
And next week, I will gather with friends for handwork and hanging out. I’ll also go to work with my dad where I participate in and watch him operate a very successful manufacturing business.
All of the anti-homeschooling comments are symptomatic of the negative mythology about homeschooling.One more:
Homeschoolers do not sit at home. They are out in the world. They take classes, join clubs, attend dances and parties (yes, homeschoolers have dances, often more frequently than their schooled peers. They take community college courses, they hold down jobs (my homeschooler got a job teaching martial arts when she was fifteen), they do everything their schooled peers do. They just don’t sit in a classroom six-plus hours a day.
There are many ways to homeschool. The article was about one family. It’s unfortunate that so many readers lack the creativity to think outside the box. But that’s what happens when one surrenders one’s life to a system that can’t accept any other way to educate.
This is amazing…a bunch a comments from non homeschooled kids, speculating about why homeschooling is bad. These comments say nothing at all about homeschooling, but are a stark illustration of an intellectual poverty and lack of critical thinking skills that are a shameful artifact of our current educational practices.Yes, their intellects have suffered. But school has also damaged their spirits. If children emerge from their thirteen-year institutionalization with any measure of curiosity, creativity, initiative, or independence, it's in spite of public school, not thanks to it.
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Thanks to Rod Dreher for linking here in his piece. Don't miss the astute comments. Here's one from Publius Cato
Ah yes, the real world, where relationship are based on deception and coercion, not respect and consent. Where being tasteless and a conformist is acceptable, where being decadent and licentious is applauded. When I read the opinions of these CHILDREN, I realize where the collapse of our moral values happened: in our schools.***
Linked at Instapundit -- thanks!
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Also linked at Ricochet. Go there, and to Mr. Dreher's post, and don't miss the comments.
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You go girl!
ReplyDeleteMy husband was the product of the public education system in California, and when I met him when we were in our late 20s he was floundering in college after a decade of dead end jobs. He couldn't write. I spent many hours "home" schooling him in the art of composition, and he learned and succeeded.
In general the public school system is a black hole in which millions of children fall and cannot get out. However, with the breakdown of marriage on such a vast scale, there is nothing rich in the home life to ameliorate the bleakness of the school day.
LOL..oh my goodness. I was home schooled from second grade up until college. These comments are a direct reflection of not understanding what it's all about. They're right though; I never made any friends. That's why I blog four times a week, write short stories and just landed my first column in the local paper...because I just want someone to like me! hahaha
ReplyDeleteFor some reason in this country we think we are required to turn our children over to the public school system for their entire education, as if they are a tube of cookie dough ready to be shoved in the oven for 40 minutes.
ReplyDeleteMy children attended a public school, but we also intentionally home-schooled and home-socialized them.
They saw us read every night. They saw us enjoying a hobby. They saw us completing family tasks before we relaxed for the evening. We ate together in the dining room and had pleasant conversation daily.
They consequently read for pleasure, have hobbies and practice and improve their skills, converse with adults, are well-mannered, understand the relationship between work and results, are thrifty - in short they are good young adults.
They have friends and are rising in their jobs. In short, they are positive additions to society.
One hundred percent of the kids my hubby teaches who have been home schooled are articulate, bright, completely "socialized", and able to hold a conversation with an adult.
ReplyDeleteIt is rare to have a public school kid that is much more than a "grunter" and even rarer for them to succeed at their music lessons. Most quit. We call them the "droolers" around the dining room table.
We read the comments together with our kids to get their opinions. The 10-year old couldn't stop laughing - "Worried about not seeing their friends? Why couldn't they just invite them over?" And the always astute 8-year old commented, "I think those kids think we are just like a school but it's just in our home. They just don't understand."
ReplyDeleteAnother funny from the 8-year old...When asked just recently by a well-meaning public school teaching relative if he likes to read at night before he goes to bed, our son said, "Why would I just read at night when I can read all day?"
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if you were going to pick up on the comments. I read them yesterday and laughed. I don't know many homeschooled children, but the ones that I do are bright and can hold a conversation with adults very easily. They also have learned a wider vocabulary as they are not saying like every second or third word. The adults that I know that were homechooled are also happy well adjusted adults. One graduated from Tulane and spent one semester at Harvard. Not too shabby I would say.
ReplyDeleteRod Dreher has written a piece on this and he's getting some excellent comments.
ReplyDeleteOnce, in a moment of weakness, I threatened to send my homeschooled kids to public school.
ReplyDelete"No, Mom, anywhere but there!"
;-)
We have a public speaking/classical education class once a week, drama, art, piano, swimming in an empty recreation center (bliss), etcetera and so forth. Sometimes they tell me we're doing too much so we back off. They are wonderful and talented and fearless. They love to learn new things. They know they have blessed lives. I have been aware of homeschooled kids who do fall through the cracks. There are real issues, of course. But I know that they might not necessarily be better off in public school.
Public school is just a building. You are locked up there as much as you are at home. You are just with more people.
Wow, nice post, but sad. Goes along with the P&P classic "Adulthood Undermined":
ReplyDeletehttp://www.punditandpundette.com/2011/07/adulthood-undermined.html
Wish I knew how old the kids were - please let them be small. The best I've read about public ed. is in Ann Coulter's GODLESS. (Shockingly, not to be found among P&P's faves!)
What are the ages of those who responded to the question? Are they vastly different than the homeschooled side of the response?
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, and I meant to mention that, they probably are younger. The NYT asked that commenters be at least 13 but they can't control that. So there's probably disparity there.
ReplyDeleteA commenter on Dreher's post said something about him cherry-picking ignorant comments, but if you look at the original discussion you'll find that the comments he and I posted are, I think, a pretty fair representation of the general tone.
I don't think anyone is saying that all public school students are illiterate and innumerate and all homeschoolers are brainiacs.
But I do believe the public school system is, in Steyn's words, our biggest single structural defect. Our kids are its victims. I hope the NYT item has gotten some parents to consider the alternatives.
In many smaller communities public schools are pretty good. It's in the cities that schools are often not so great. To each his own. I prefer public schools; There are many quality ones in mid-size towns in Colorado for instance. Plus, many parents have to work and having their kids home schooled wouldn't work - unless by home school you mean bringing in one or two teachers to teach them.
ReplyDeleteThe problem I have with home schooling is the closed environment that verges on parent propaganda. [Except with math, spelling and grammar]. Public schools are a way for kids to socially interact as well as learn. It's a real world challenge that potentially makes kids more well rounded. Plus kids DO pick up a lot at home and can still learn from parents with regards to literature and history and political perspective. But, let's be honest, it is good for kids to get away from a controlled home environment. To see the world in a different light is one of the primary goals of education. AND to eventually be better educated than their parents and then move away and conquer the world.
But, look, if your kids [or you] can achieve all this with homeschooling then good for you. But it doesn't mean all public schooling is bad.
"I also think I wouldn’t be able to stand my mom for the six hours."
ReplyDeleteWell, ONE valid point in all of those!
Commenter Walt tried to post this but Blogger kept making it disappear, so here goes:
ReplyDelete"In many smaller communities public schools are pretty good." Really, Matt? Are the majority of students they graduate from the twelfth grade able to read and write and do math on a twelfth-grade level?
No, they are not.
They are not, in spite of the tiny class sizes and the 6-figure salaries for principals.
"To see the world in a different light is one of the primary goals of education." Stuff and nonsense. The primary goal of American public school education is to provide jobs for Democrat voters and line their pockets with tax-payer money to send back to Democrat candidates.
Shame on Republicans for allowing the Dems to despoil our schools!
American Public Ed.'s problem is OVER-FUNDING. Teaching is a human instinct - it's a richly rewarding job, and there's no need to offer high pay and lavish benefits to attract good, dedicated people.
High pay and lavish benefits attract the lazy, the narcissistic, even the sociopathic who otherwise would have avoided work in the schools - "What, ME drive a used car?" As we saw in Wisconsin, most teachers are more effective on a picket line than in a classroom.
And don't forget the Educrat nonsense that makes this all possible. Credentialing is in the hands of shrill Leftists, and to make sure they get easily molded people into the Ed. Major programs, they make it the easiest major on campus, full of time-wasting, Mickey Mouse courses that few self-respecting people can sit through.
Sorry, Matt, but the only difference twixt your comment and the comments of the public school kids' above is that you ran yours through spell-check. "
Excessively "socialized" sheeple end up living in Occupy tents. Homeschooled kids end up with real jobs in the real world, paying real taxes.
ReplyDeleteI will say where I grew up had a very good public school system. I don't know if that is still true today. But one of the reasons it was that way was the level of parental involvement.
ReplyDeleteThat is a big part of the problem. Parents drop their kids off and expect someone else to handle it. Too many are not involved as they should be.
I recently was giving out info on the school board elections on Parents Night at a local high school. Judging by how much lit I had left over, half the parents didn't bother to show up.
This is my favorite comment here. "...closed environment that verges on parent propaganda"...uh, as opposed to the closed environment and Leftist propaganda students in public school get? I assure you I prefer my propaganda to their Marxist crap!!! My propaganda consists of teaching the value of capitalism and hard work. I'll turn out productive members of society while the public schools are turning out Occupiers.
ReplyDeleteI am a teacher. There I said it. I am NOT a leftist Democrat ( I am not even a democrat!). Most of my peers are not either. (OK, some of them are, but they are balanced by the right leaning Republicans...)
ReplyDeleteI am NOT overpaid. However, I would NOT do the job if I was not able to make a decent living doing it. I have never picketed, and I have never been in any danger of owning a new car.
To make the assertions that Jill made about pay and credentials is to ignore the truth at least as much as any leftist counterpoint might argue. Get a grip Sunshine. Most intelligent people will not work for free. Teaching (be it ever so rewarding intellectually)is still WORK. And my kids deserve to eat as much as yours.
Credentialing is in the hands of shrill State Government administrations who often have only the most vague notions about competence in the classroom. In my state (Tennessee), the REPUBLICAN administration has taken MILLIONS of Fed dollars on the premise that they will "increase teacher accountability" using PARTS of an evaluation system that is window dressing at best, and terribly counter-productive at worst.
The college teaching programs in my community (I have my Master of Science) are fairly balanced, and populated with elements of American cultural groups that effectively represent the population at large.
Nope, no leftist agenda present. Sorry.
I have 17 years of experience in public schools. I have taught in urban, suburban, rural, and private institutions. The single most important common denominator for student success was the interest and involvement of at least one nominally-sane intelligent parent in the academic life of the student.
Blaming the ills of our culture on schools is foolish and myopic. Schools teach curricula demanded by the governments which create, fund, and evaluate the schools.
The problem with America is apathy. And it is a bi-partisan affliction.
Just a conservative girl said:
ReplyDelete"I will say where I grew up had a very good public school system." How do you define "good", though?
I have lovely memories of my suburban public high school decades back - team spirit, hijinks, proms & romance, no violence. Had a high opinion of my own writing skills - was on the school paper! Then when I got to college they stuck me in remedial English for two semesters. This happened to most of my college-bound classmates, as well. (The preppy kids did fine, and so did the parochial school ones.)
Was reading that the majority of kids graduated from CA public schools who are accepted into the UC system (i.e. the best of the lot) need a great deal of remediation in freshman and even sophomore years.
It's getting worse and worse, even in the nicest neighborhoods.
-Walt
Puniphorous said:
ReplyDelete"To make the assertions that Jill made about pay and credentials is to ignore the truth at least as much as any leftist counterpoint might argue."
Jill didn't make them, I did.
Of course you don't think you're overpaid - nobody ever thinks that.
I said this: "Teaching is a human instinct - it's a richly rewarding job, and there's no need to offer high pay and lavish benefits to attract good, dedicated people." I admit it's completely unfair, too.
Why shouldn't good, dedicated people be financially rewarded? Because it HAS NOT WORKED.
The more money you pour into a school system, the WORSE it gets. It gets that way because money attracts not only good, dedicated people.
"And my kids deserve to eat as much as yours." Oh, shut up about "deserve". Your kids aren't starving, and even if they were, that gives you no right to garnishee our paychecks.
You want big money and the sweet life? Move away from the government trough.
-Walt
Shut up?
ReplyDeleteNah.
My kids are not starving because Daddy has a job.
I will refrain from the insulting comment that you so richly deserve. DESERVE.
As to high pay and lavish benefits, well, I have no experience with either so perhaps you could elucidate on your assertions with some facts?
Garnishee is a court-ordered function. Taxes are what you mean I am sure, but like most extremists you fail to offer practical solutions.
Is this because you lack the basic understanding of social function and desire a "my way or the highway" answer to all problems?
Your expertise is assuredly vast. I kid! Your assertions are absurd.
I never expected (and do not get) big money, but I probably define a "sweet life" VERY differently than you do.
You want to accomplish things like social and political change? Then get involved in the process. Educate the next generation about what it will take to return America to the values you believe are important.
Communicate with the leadership of your country and community in ways that are constructive. And become a part of the political process as a leader of SOMETHING.
Otherwise, quit whining about overpaid teachers, and your own lost and wasted wages. Oh, and just shut up.
Is there an argument in there somewhere? All I see's a bunch of insults.
ReplyDeletePublic school teachers make more money and get better benefits that the private sector workers who are taxed to pay the teachers' salaries. If you teachers were doing a good job, it might be worth it.
But you're not. You're failing the children of the people who pay your salary - and they have no say! If a parent doesn't like something you teach in class, what's her recourse? You'd just shrug, right? Who is she, after all - you don't have to answer to some parent!
Look at the commenters on top of this page. They homeschool to get away from the likes of you! They're still paying your generous salary, but they're sacrificing their own time to keep their kids from your useless, and sometimes pernicious, influence.
Do good salaries make good teachers? If so, why did the Clintons, and now the Obamas, send their children to Sidwell Friends? DC public school teachers make lots more than those teachers, they get a lot more sick days, personal days, very personal days, a better health plan, a better dental plan, better pensions, and let's not even talk about tenure.
Clinton and Obama sent their daughters to teachers who know how to teach, that's why. They want their daughters to be able to read.
What about you, do you trust your own kids to the public schools? Most public school teachers in Chicago don't, I've read. Luckily for them, they make enough coin to send their own kids to private schools!
And how about safety? I've read that public school teachers molest their charges at 20 times the rate that Catholic priests ever did - how come we don't hear much about THAT scandal?
Make an argument this time, Puni. Why should we pay so dear for a service that's shockingly substandard?
Did you guys on this page catch this advice from the guy who claims to be a public school teacher?
ReplyDelete"You want to accomplish things like social and political change? Then get involved in the process. Educate the next generation about what it will take to return America to the values you believe are important."
Yeah, he's "accomplishing political change" by educating OTHER PEOPLE'S kids about the values HE believes are important.
Oh, and he'd like a raise.
@Walt: "claims to be a public school teacher" Your best argument is to just accuse another reader of lying about his profession? Is there a reason you decided to set aside civility?
ReplyDeleteMy mother was a public school teacher. She had a master's degree, was dedicated to her work, loved the kids she taught and spent money out of her own pocket to provide the best experience she could given the constraints of an under-funded rural school system. She did not "just shrug" if a parent talked to her - that's absurd. And I can vouch for the fact that she was not paid adequately for what she did. It's offensive to suggest that teachers (who are also tax-payers, incidentally) need to "move away from the government trough."
As a scientist, I would like to see the data on this. Show me the research behind your conclusion that putting more money into schools makes them worse. Not jut your opinion, but the science behind it. And make sure that you account for the difference in parent involvement. Because home-schoolers are a self-selected group of very involved parents. If you separate out the kids in public school with involved parents from the kids with parents who don't care, you get a very different picture. Parental involvement is key, and is not affected by paying our teachers fairly.
If you respond, Walt, I would ask you to refrain from ugly personal attacks and just address the issues.
Hmm. My comment is disappearing again. I'll try breaking it into smaller pieces.
ReplyDeleteCS:
"Ugly personal attacks"? I stated a bald truth - he claims to be a public school teacher. Assuming Internet commenters are what they say is risky - lots of them have even been caught lying about their gender.
It would have been unfair to public school teachers to claim that one of their number had admitted to propagandizing his charges without such a disclaimer.
My own mom was a public school teacher (4th grade) for thirty years. The vast majority of her students ended the year reading on grade level. She was a good and dedicated teacher, and I have at least implied that such exist in the public schools - my point is that the high pay attracts worse people.
To continue:
ReplyDeleteIt's nice about your mom. What's it got to do with the price of eggs in India, though? (Anecdotes aren't evidence, and neither are appeals to Mom and apple pie.)
What if a parent went in and complained about her 10-year-old being taught to roll condoms onto a banana, or being instructed in the joys of "rimming". Would the teacher just shrug? Either that, or send her to an administrator for the shrug.
Yes, you may have no say in sex-ed curricula, but you're complicit. You have much more say in climate-change nonsense, and you subject your charges to Al Gore's propaganda film without showing the Brit film which debunks it.
My point was that those who pay have no say - the only way to vote is with feet by private school or homeschool, and that traps the poor in ghastly urban propaganda mills. Your mom's good manners don't change that.
Data? I've read students in one of the Dakotas consistently rack up the best test scores in America - and they have the lowest teacher pay. California has the highest teacher pay, and they score the lowest - so I've read.
ReplyDeleteRemember the Kansas City judge who, concerned about poor test scores, ordered millions and millions taxed out of the residents to build up good schools? New buildings, olympic swimming pools, high-tech, salary raises all around! Result? Lower test scores, more dysfunction.
There, I’ve provided you with some leads. As a scientist, I’m sure you can do your own further research. Don’t forget to question why prep schools and parochial schools, whose teachers get lower pay than public school teachers, always prepare students better for college.
"(M)ake sure that you account for the difference in parent involvement", because no matter what, it can't be your fault. This "out" you've left leaves you with an excuse to deny any data I cite, you sly boots!
ReplyDeletePrivate sector workers are being laid off left and right, but public school teachers keep fattening at the trough. The burden of proof is on you - show that higher pay makes for better education or just sit quietly until this all blows over.
And the taxes you pay aren't real, just an accounting trick. The government gives with one hand and takes back with the other - it makes work for more bureaucrats. You contribute nothing to the "Social Security Lockbox", but that's not real either.
Public school teachers create no wealth - Wall Street's greed at least has some benefit. Would that public school teachers' greed at least had the benefit of educating our kids!
Walt, as you have failed to offer data I will simply conclude that your anecdotal trivia is mere opinion.
ReplyDeleteYes, the internet is full of fools who seem to propagate like mushrooms. Some of them are what they say they are.
I will not bother with you any more, as it is said that arguing with an idiot leaves onlookers wondering who is who.
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person, so good day.
Plus you're busy dropping your kids off at private school, huh?
ReplyDelete"Anecdotal"...I don't think that word means what you think it means.
But your parting shot has been received, Puni. Vaya con Dios!
Puni wanted an exit from the argument, and I'm happy he took one - such debates eat at one's free time.
ReplyDeleteBut he was confusing anecdotes with generalizations - I've made many of the latter above. And when you use your common sense to generalize, you stick your neck out. It's easy to be made to look foolish if your opponent has evidence (not anecdotes) to the contrary.
As for teacher pay vs. test scores, it's a long and complex subject. Google "student test scores by state", and you have pages and pages of hits for different kinds of tests. Sometimes Illinois looks good, but then there was a scandal about teachers fixing tests in Chicago - how to control for that?
But usually the Dakotas, where teacher pay is low, test high. CA and NY, where teacher pay is high, always test near the bottom.
I invite everybody to test my postulate - that the problem with US public schools is over-funding. If you prove me wrong, I sure will look silly.
Have a nice day.
I think the selections included here are a poor representation of the writing abilities of a good deal of public educated people. I know home schooled people who spell badly as well. I like the idea of homeschooling but I know it is not possible for a lot of families.
ReplyDeleteHow old were the public-schooled children that you have examples of? Their writing seems like 3rd grade level or worse, so I was just wondering.
ReplyDeleteI really thought I wanted to be a high school teacher, until I saw what most "average" high school kids are like: apathetic, lazy, whiny, narcissistic, and possessing a strong sense of false entitlement. The problem isn't public schools or teachers. Admittedly, education is a fairly easy program compared to the engineering curriculum I eventually switched to. But how can you expect any teacher to teach children who aren't willing to learn?
ReplyDeleteTrue, there are bad teachers out there. I had teachers in public schools that ranged from vacant to downright malicious. But if you give your kids over to the government to be educated and you take no personal interest in it, that's on you. It's not on the kid's teacher, and it's not on the school or school system.
For those of you who constantly harp on America's teachers, why don't you quit your job and go after all that money and the "sweet life" that teachers supposedly have? After all, if they're so lazy and ineffective, their job would probably be a lot easier than the one you currently have.
Related:
ReplyDeleteMore money for teachers ≠ more education for kids
Anonymous said "...high school kids are like: apathetic, lazy, whiny, narcissistic..." If we're blaming kids now, who is it learning at the parochial schools? Why are public schools WORSE than parochial in every category?
ReplyDeleteLazy, narcissistic, whiny ADULTS are attracted to a part-time job with full time salary and bennies. Some work hard, yes. Others go home daily at 2:30 PM and party all summer. Some use sick days for twice-monthly long weekends, others save them for huge jackpot payouts from bankrupt states:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/lottery-jackpots-nope-sick-day-payouts-for-teachers/article_272cf07c-780c-5c08-bbf4-b737b67e18bb.html
“Admittedly, education is a fairly easy program compared to the engineering curriculum I eventually switched to.”
ReplyDeleteThomas Sowell, the greatest living American, was once asked what change in America would satisfy him most, if he could snap his fingers and make it happen.
“Do away with schools of education and departments of education. Close them down,” he answered. He said that the “Mickey Mouse courses that you have to take to enter the field” were driving many of the best people away from teaching. (Ray Sawhill, “Black and Right”, Salon, 10 Nov. 1999 – hat-tip, GODLESS.)
I was wrong above about public school teachers molesting their charges at 20 times the rate that Catholic priests ever did. According to Ann Coulter in GODLESS (Chapter 6, 47% through the e-book) the rate is 30 times more – and their unions defend each perp tooth and nail. Where do unions get the money to do that? The government collects dues for them, i.e. it’s taxpayer money.
ReplyDeleteVery fashionable to bash priests and the church, but suggest teachers and schools have a problem, and anonymous joes write in to say, Well, if it’s so lucrative and easy, you do it! Not the point, Joe.
The point is that state and federal governments coerce taxpayers to lavishly fund a dysfunctioning system. “Teachers in the private sector earn about 60% less that public school teachers,” according to Coulter (citing Michael Podgursky from “Fringe Benefits” in “Education Next”, 2003). And those private schools routinely out-perform public ones. Close the public schools and issue vouchers.
ReplyDeleteRelevant post from Feb. 2010:
ReplyDeleteIgnoring abuse in schools?
Great post Jill.
ReplyDeleteI question the sacred 'both parents have to work argument' as a reason for why public education is a foregone conclusion regardless of concerns about what/how is taught to one's children.
Life is made up of choices and priorities. What one is saying when they state as an absolute that both parents MUST spend (an assumed) 9 hours of their day traveling to & working at a place of business is that they have made the choice that the lifestyle expense that they choose to live is more important than their child being raised in an environment that prepares them and educates them to critically and knowledgeably critique the world around them. I realize that everyone does not have two parents (another topic, another sign of misplaced priorities in the parent's lives) but in cases where there are two parents - their foremost and utmost responsibility is to educate their children to the best of their ability.
If one's lifestyle expenses does not allow for the PRIORITY of one's children to come first in their lives - then re-locating/changing what your income is etc... is necessary.
This is hardly an exhaustive explanation of what I am trying to say but in short - way too many parents are lazy and by lazy I mean lazy. Parenting is no joke and it's sacrifice upon sacrifice because it's worth it. Just because the government offers you the 'easy' way out by saying that they will educate and take care of your child from 7am to 5pm means ceding all control over your child's education.
To the point about 'socialization'. I argue quite strongly that socialization for socialization's sake is not a positive thing.
ReplyDeleteThe drastic assumption that all homeschooled children are locked in their rooms to study all day and occasionally crawl out from under a rock to see the light of day and those strange humans beyond the home's walls is ignorant at best.
As a homeschooled individual from 1-14, I can tell you that we were involved with many social activities, including but not limited to neighbors, homeschool groups, sports (I played high school basketball at a Christian academy), church youth groups, family etc... To act as though the time at public school is the only way to meet people is a false premise. Not only is it a false premise, but it is also a dangerous premise because it presupposes that one has to expose their children to people that you do not know well at all who teach them all day - that teaching falling on the clay that is a child's mind... easy formed and swayed. The education of a child should be directed by the parents and their friends ought to be carefully selected and examined. You have to start your kids off right before throwing them to the big bad world that will chew them up and spit them out.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/11/13/are-you-sick-of-highly-paid-teachers/
ReplyDeleteIn All Honesty People Who Are Home Schooled shouldn't speak upon public school systems because you don't have a clue of what it like. Also many home schooled children are shelter and fed lies this is fact and other turn out to be very social and successful. I'm a 20 year old who attended public school there is nothing wrong with it i graduated a year earlier and went straight to college after. I Work two jobs and go to school. There Are Many home schooled children who are not able to be social, that is afraid of they world itself because they were sheltered. You had to make activities for home schooled children. Public schools have it built in the system like gym,dance, chess,volleyball, cheer-leading,basketball,baseball and lots of other activities Oh and one more thing for you ignorant people public schools are made for the poor or filled with poverty stricken children thank You!
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if that's a joke or not.
ReplyDelete